Right Back on Men - female gaze in SPN. Meta-picspam

[aletheiafelinea]

We're used to what feminist research calls the “male gaze” turned on women; fandom turns the “female gaze” right back on men.
This isn’t the only quotable thing Katherine Larsen and Lynn S. Zubernis say in Fangasm: Supernatural Fangirls, but this one made me thinking about female gaze (on men) also in the canon itself. Would be interesting to gather examples, I thought.

Unlike my previous picspams, this one's not supposed to be a complete list. These are not all cases of female gaze (on men) in the show, just the ones I found most explicit and/or interesting, for many reasons. You may notice any of them could not have been just a minor detail the very existence of which is a matter of interpretation in the eye of beholder, a thing born of and depending on things as individual as an artistic choice of the given actress or her general style of acting. Every each one had to be an actual piece of the script – an actual task for the actress, being there before she even read it, and not just an interpretation she made up on her own. This means they demanded the attention and collaborative work of the whole creative team, writer to director to actress (and her male partner in the scene), and all between. Also, some of them are plot relevant, this meaning the episode's main plot, not just marginal embellishments of secondary scenes.

The only order is by the episode's number, because all the cases are too diverse and have too many factors combined to fit them exclusively into narrow classes. And perhaps it's surprising they can be diverse at all, but they are, or at least they turn out to be in SPN: the gazes are appreciative, gleeful, curious, taken aback, disdainful, friendly, confused, possessive, playful, hostile, amused, predatory, smug, worshiping, lascivious, professionally detached... or many of these combined. Whatever form it takes, though, it's always women (one or more at time) watching, assessing and judging men (one or more at time). And 'gaze' is a figurative term here, at times including also talking to and about, touching and breaching personal space. Or skin, for that matter.

One warning yet: the picspam is deliberately biased and made to emphasize the theme. I (mostly) leave out the 'gazed on' part's spoken replies and in case of mixed reactions I most often pick out evading and indirect over confrontational and/or enthusiastic. As the result, only women get to speak and generally be active part here, so it can and should be considered an out-of-context thing, and therefore watching the whole scene is advisable before using it for an example or argument. On the other hand, it's worth to notice that in some cases the shy reaction is visible even more (or only) when watched as the whole scene, because it's not always possible to show this as clearly in still frames. Nevertheless, I assure and warrant the essence hasn't been really changed, reversed or twisted in any of the cases. The keyword here is 'emphasized', not 'skewed'.

Okay, okay, I know you want just pics, so enough of this longish blabbering and let's get down to the matter. :)


1.16 Shadow
Meg
”The trap isn't for you.”



3.02 The Kids Are Alright
Moms at the kinder party
”You don't know about Dean? The Dean. Best-night-of-my-life Dean?”
“No! Tell me.”





3.06 Red Sky at Morning
Bela Talbot
”All right, get it out – I look ridiculous.”
“Not exactly the word I'd use.”





…and also

Gertrude Case
”You remind me of my late husband. He was shy too, till we got below deck.”







3.16 No Rest for the Wicked
Lilith
”Your lips are soft.”



4.01 Lazarus Rising, 4.10 Heaven and Hell, 4.15 Death Takes a Holiday
Pamela Barnes
”So, these the boys?”







”That perky little ass of yours. You could bounce a nickel off that thing.”




Even blindness doesn't stop Pamela from watching, and not only watching. Anyway, refusing to avert her eyes and forcing Castiel to show up was what made her blind in the first place, which may or may not be a case in point, since it's still not clear whether angels out of vessel have a gender on their own.

4.14 Sex and Violence
Dr. Cara Roberts
”I have been thinking about you, all night. Well, parts of you. Like your lips. They're very distracting. It's a problem. And I can't stop thinking about kissing them.”





4.18 The Monster at the End of This Book
Sera Siege
”Awesome.”







5.01 Sympathy for the Devil
Becky Rosen
”You’re so firm.”





”And you're...”



”...not what I pictured.”



5.11 Sam, Interrupted
Dr. Erica Cartwright
”And you're my paranoid schizophrenic with narcissistic personality disorder and religious psychosis.”





…and also

Wendy
”He's larger.”



…and also

Nurse Foreman the Wraith
”I make all of your problems disappear.”









(I shoot the first who says ‘pudding’. In spite of being a case very much in point.)

6.03 The Third Man
Lana
”Don't stop on my account.”





6.06 You Can’t Handle the Truth
Veritas
”How about we play a little truth or truth?”







7.11 Adventures in Babysitting
Sally
”Hunter day at the all-you-can-eat. ... Strong silent. Fine. I don't need much entertainment with my meal.”





7.12
Ezra Moore
”Who's he? Some farmer clown?”







7.13 The Slice Girls
Lydia
”Nice suit, by the way. Guys don’t dress up much. I like it.”








It's often said that SPN is filmed for female viewers and that it's visible in sex scenes, with the camera clinging more to male bodies. My personal estimation is rather that it's more or less even ratio (though males take obviously more space and are more difficult to hide, so this can explain the impression *g*), with this episode being a distinct exception. Here the camera takes the female point of view, and increasingly so, until the only what's left is what Lydia is seeing. Before that, every time the camera briefly turns on her, it focuses on her intent stare. Notice also, it's her who takes the clothes off Dean or he does it himself, but not the other way around. Only much later it becomes clear she was a hunting predator, and Dean a hunted prey, unaware though willing at the time.

8.03 Heartache
Randa Moreno
”So, if I go real slow and take my time and enjoy this, I can actually show you your own beating heart before you die.”





8.10 Torn and Frayed
Amelia Richardson
”Do you know you're the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning and the last thing before I go to sleep?”





8.11 LARP and the Real Girl
Charlie Bradbury
”You're gonna have to ditch the suit if you're gonna walk and talk with the queen.”




A curious case of playing into someone's fantasy – and in quite enthusiastic way – not sexual fantasy though, but fantasy fantasy.

8.17 Goodbye Stranger
Meg
”And you're kind of bad – which is actually all manner of hot.”





9.02 Devil May Care
Abaddon”I've loved this body since the moment I first saw it. You're the perfect vessel, Dean. You give a girl all sorts of nasty ideas. So go ahead and play hard to get, and I'll peel off this 'no demons allowed' tattoo and blow smoke up your ass. ... Once I'm on top, I'll make you watch. And I'll use your body. Have you ever felt an infant's blood drip down your chin? Or listened to a girl scream as you rip her guts out? Because you will. You and me, lover. We'll have a grand old time.”





9.03 I’m No Angel
April
”I can't say I didn't find you attractive.”



9.08 Rock and a Hard Place
The chastity group’s members
”Stay strong. Stay pure.”





















10.01 Black
Hannah
”…?”




“I'm sensing awkwardness,” Castiel says. Yeah, you wouldn’t, if you have rather tried to anticipate and prevent it, you know, before opening the door.

10.05 Fan Fiction
Marie and Maeve
”You guys are way too old to be Sam, or Dean.”





10.06 Ask Jeeves
Heddy and Beverley
”You two are adorable. ... So, Sam, tell me, do you work out? ”









” (Did you see how long his fingers were?)”



10.22 The Prisoner
Rowena
”I'm sorry, you're just fascinating. An angel that rejected Heaven.
That's like a fish that wants to fly. Or a dog that thinks it's people. ”




A case in point only technically, since it’s witch gaze on angel before all, the witch only coincidentally being female, and the angel even more coincidentally and temporarily being male.

~*~
All photos come from Swannee’s Place, Home of the Nutty, Screencapped.net, Supernatural Fans Online, Oxioniensis Screencaps and KissThemGoodbye.net. Also SupernaturalWiki was a big help.

ETA
Now you can comment on it also by Disqus, here.

Comments

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Thank you thank you for this!
I think a lot about the gaze in SPN, it's such a complicated topic. But as for the reverse gaze you show here so delightfully - do you feel empowered by this?

[some unpopular things to sy about SPN, feel free to skip - really ]


For me in most cases (particularly earlier seasons) this feels like it's mostly meant to showcase the hotness of the Winchesters, and/or to give us cookie cutter "sassy strong women characters " as a sort of "we didn't bother actually writing a character, but strong women are feminists and sexy, so everybody's pleased, right ?"

As for Lydia - I agree with you, though this is also put down - she is evil, the offspring is killed, the scene is cut with that guy being killed, and from the cuts between the phallic knife and everybody's positions it is pretty clear she, at least metaphorically, was the top in that scene. It is SUCH an m-preg episode, only without the m-preg...

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

I think a lot about the gaze in SPN, it's such a complicated topic.
At least partially due of the canon's length. We're at the stage where anything one picks up is complicated, because of the sheer amount of material.

do you feel empowered by this?
*scratches head and thinks long* Not really. To be honest, wieving texts of culture in terms of 'my gender/not my gender', 'my race/not my race', 'my age group/not my age' doesn't come naturally for me. I'm aware this perspective is important for many people, but it's not my first and default way of thinking; doesn't really feel mine. It's the Internet that has teached me looking at narrative things this way (and I don't think I made a good business in it, I must say; I feel spoiled in a way rather than really improved). When I don't make the effort to look and interpret in the social-aware way, my default and primary mode that comes more naturally is deciding my likes and dislikes, and the feeling of community, upon such things as way of thinking and manner of behaving/acting, the sense of humor I can share, the way of solving problems I can appreciate (or not), and so on. That's why I don't really take a list like this as regarding me, because all these women (and the scenes collected here) are too different (that's good, actually, if you ask me). We share a gender, indeed, but this doesn't decide anything yet; what does, is the feeling of sharing the point of view. It's rather that others - the world in general or someone - decided I should feel empowered by it, or see myself in it, or whatever; not me, or not as much. To give an example: one of my personal favorites (maybe even the #1) on this list is Bela and her professional verdict on luxurious-if-uncomfortable-Dean. *g* (Others favorite are Charlie & Dean's Mirror Time, or Marie and Maeve's opinion on our Dear Old Farts, tehee. Even if I don't share their view, being a little older than the girls *cough*, I found the scene funny.) On the other hand, Pamela Barnes? Hell, no, thank you very much. She makes me uncomfortable and I'd never want to find myself next to her. I'm all with Dean and Sam in these scenes. If the genders were switched, the fandom would demand the writers' blood, but she being female apparently makes her behavior OK and admirable, strong woman and all. Strong woman my ass, pfft. Ellen Harvelle or Jody Mills, they are strong women, and they don't need proving it on anyone's skin, unless it's an attacker's skin, may Purgatory have mercy on it soon afterwards.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

(*grumbles* Stupid comment limit... Sorry for making it so long. :} This is what happen when you write wonderful comments and make me thinky. *g*)

this feels like it's mostly meant to showcase the hotness of the Winchesters
Scenes like Lana and soulless!Sam in "The Third Man", definitely. (And all this lacks consequence anyway. This had no real justification in the plot beyond fanservice, and on the other hand there are scenes that logically call for getting more or less naked - 10.22 The Prisoner, the scalpel against a T-shirt, wtf? - and yet they sacrifice the feasibility of scene for... what actually? not for keeping the rating low, certainly.)

"we didn't bother actually writing a character, but strong women are feminists and sexy, so everybody's pleased, right ?"
If it means such as Pamela, I'm certainly not among pleased... *g* Sadly, many feminist critics aren't without the guilt in it, because that's what happens when the emphasis is put (and it often is, at least in Internet discussions) on 'strong' before all. 'Strong woman' has become synonymous for 'well written woman' as opposed to 'weak = stereotypically female = poorly written'. Of course, it's rather poor critical thought, but well, simplifications - often harmful simplifications - are usually what spreads the most and has the biggest influence.

it is pretty clear she, at least metaphorically, was the top in that scene. It is SUCH an m-preg episode, only without the m-preg...
Literally, too. I disagree about m-preg, though. It works only if we assume 'preg' as equal to lower and weaker by definition (or especially: being made weaker), and I don't think we should make or accept such meaning. I rather see it as the 'preg' element manifesting as powerful, if not nice and fluffy. Female puts the male down, he's a stud being used, his only useful features being male ones, and thrown away, no longer useful for anything, end of story. I think less seahorse, more lady spider. ;)

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I do agrree, though, that there are other factors to identification than gender - DEFINITELY!
(though here, too, I blame the writers )

As for strong women = feminist = good, liked character - please pardon my Hermione moment - that is first wave feminism. Second wave is from the seventies. this is such an old fashines feminist perspective ugh!
*steps off of soapbox*


For me, and I so don't mean to put down characters other people love - you might want to skip to the next paragraph - till season 7 there was not one single woman/girl character the show bothered to give depth, certainly not like the boys, but not even like Bobby or John. Some were made awesome by fandom, but mostly one the show - ugh ugh ugh ugh - they made me extremely uncomfortale and embarrassed for the writers, and I am still pretty pissed off about that, not to mention Kripke blaming fans for his bad writing.
Not that season 7 fixed that, very well, but it certainly got better.


M-preg - I meant I felt it used elements of that trope - not the that being pregnant was a weakness - that, I supposed changes from person to person?
I agree this was not a cool queer play on gender roles and more just the stereotypical femme fatal, too!


(and I posted the first half of this reply someplace wrong! sorry!!11 )

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

As for strong women = feminist = good, liked character - please pardon my Hermione moment - that is first wave feminism. Second wave is from the seventies. this is such an old fashines feminist perspective ugh!
*steps off of soapbox*
I'm not any close to being an expert on feminism, but I think you should rather tell it those still repeating it and calling themselves feminist today. ;)

For me, and I so don't mean to put down characters other people love - you might want to skip to the next paragraph - till season 7 there was not one single woman/girl character the show bothered to give depth, certainly not like the boys, but not even like Bobby or John. Some were made awesome by fandom, but mostly one the show - ugh ugh ugh ugh - they made me extremely uncomfortale and embarrassed for the writers, and I am still pretty pissed off about that, not to mention Kripke blaming fans for his bad writing.
For me, there was Bela (and my only beef with Kripke is for killing her off and explaining it was on the fandom demand; well, if it was, it's your show, dude), Ellen (I'm not that fond of Jo, in spite of her popularity), Meg v.1 (why they had to change the actress, sniff). Ruby, especially the v.1, was pretty big character, too, but I'm not really a fan. As for Bobby and John, on the other hand, Bobby took some shapes in my eyes not before season 3 (in spite of him being my #1 character now!), and John hasn't really to this moment. For me, the fandom made John more than the canon itself.

[mangacat201.livejournal.com]

Sorry for butting in after reading only about half the conversation, so I'm probably missing some context, but I feel like fandom has given depth to a lot of characters (potentially a great number of female characters actually) that the show hasn't actually explored and I feel like my personal perception of their canon and their relevance to the mythology of the show has been drastically altered by their fanon development.
My favourite example is Missouri Mosely - her being so present in a lot of (I admit early season-based) fanworks and with a pretty consistent fanon characterization too has always made her into a very pivotal character in my mind, to the point that I was actually shocked when I went back to research something or other and discovered she really only ever appeared in one SINGULAR episode.
It's one of the things that I actually credit the show a lot with that with all their problems and pitfalls in representation on different sides of the ailes, they regular manage to create characters that might have little screentime but are at the same time so rich and full of potential, that they open up pockets of the shows universe for the fandom to latch onto and fill with amazing creativitiy. And in these instances I care actually rather little whether the source material delivers a more well rounded approach to these characters - and there are plenty of shows out there that do and I love those too - because I feel that in our interactions with it, we use these imperfections to make something great and worthwhile that a more sophisticated or perfect plot or characterization wouldn't open itself up to. That doesn't excuse bad writing or counting on fandom to fix it (and there's been enough of that over the SPN years too, which has annoyed me) of course, it's just a different perspective on the roads that don't get followed for one reason or another. Anyway, stopping my tired rambling now. *g*

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

I feel like fandom has given depth to a lot of characters (potentially a great number of female characters actually) that the show hasn't actually explored
Yes, definitely! Actually this happens in any fandom, I think, and that's also one of main reasons I love the fandom culture in general.

Missouri seems almost entirely forgotten even in the fandom now, indeed. (Especially from my own perspective, a late-coming fan.) Well, admittedly it was inevitable with so many characters coming later and covering everything that was before in new layers of canon, so to speak. Then again, I'm still baffled at, say, Gabriel's career in the fandom, hardly proportional to what he got in the canon. That's why I'm a little miffed at the fandom for Bela Talbot's fate - her canonic coverage was comparable, same as her personality's power, and yet she's not even in tenth part as popular. For me, she's a fine example proving that fandom - every fandom, not only SPN - should look also at itself, before it accuses the creators of misogyny and other prejudices. Then again, love for a character isn't what one can just switch on, so it's not like I really demand it from anyone. I just think some people should be less narrow minded in their accusations and grudges.

That doesn't excuse bad writing or counting on fandom to fix it (and there's been enough of that over the SPN years too, which has annoyed me) of course, it's just a different perspective on the roads that don't get followed for one reason or another.
Yes, and what's more, they actually appreciate this dialogue with the fandom, and recognize its contribution, rather than condemn it (as many other creators in the past and now). I'd say currently it's maybe the most important and characteristic thing in the whole SPN phenomenon. As for bad writing - on the one hand I'm one of those fans loving to pick at plot holes and grumbling about quality and such, but on the other hand, I think many fans tends to forget the show is being made by a (big!) team, not just one person. Inconsistencies - in plot, in characters, in worldbuilding, in messages - are to be expected. Of course, I totally agree with you this doesn't excuse fails, but at the same time I think those fails don't really deserve such extremal levels of outrage I often see... But, well, that's also one of things that define fandom - extreme feelings. :)

Thanks for coming and taking your time to write a long comment! I appreciate it! :)

[ash48.livejournal.com]

What an awesome post! Fantastic collections of examples. It's also an interesting topic. Whenever I see the Winchesters being gazed upon in th show I feel like they are representing "us" - as in, well, probably "me". They are ridiculously good looking and when characters stop to notice them I'm like "yep! That'd be me". Of course, I know it's more complex than that - and the gaze in your examples demonstrate the varying uses of it.

Thanks for sharing!!

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Often I feel more with the Winchesters *cough*Pamela*cough*, but yeah, in many cases - Bela, Becky, Sera Siege, Lana, Meg v.2 - it's exactly this. *g* Works or not, it's supposed to be this, anyway. Also, come on, the whole fandom is Veritas multiplied, constantly playing 'truth or truth' with the Winchesters, they want it or not. :D Even my picspam adds to it.

Thanks for being one of reasons I want to share such things! :)

(Also, icon love ♥ *g*)

[supernutjapan.livejournal.com]

Enjoyed this immensely!!
Great job <3<3

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

I'm glad it's enjoyable! Thanks!

[191181.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised more fans don't notice the objectification of the male leads on Supernatural. Sheila Omalley has written about it here http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=72302 and goes over it in detail in her episode re-caps. Sam and Dean (especially Dean) and eyed or leered at in almost every episode by the women, men, monsters, the camera, everyone really.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Well, it's not popular way of looking. One gets more brownie points and notes on Tumblr for "OMG, evil SPN stomps all over women, it's SO problematic!!!". Thank you for the precious link! :) It looks like things I collect, I love such less common approaches. Also, maybe not so much Dean!girl, but certainly fan of Jensen here. *puts carefully aside for later*

[191181.livejournal.com]

I'm a women and I don't see the whole 'supernatural is the worst ever to women' thing. Not with the unconventional way Sam and Dean are treated as male leads.

Just off the top of my head a few scenes you could add are the a rapey ghost that attacks Sam in the pilot.
The gratuitous objectification scene in Phantom Traveler where Dean is laying in bed and is leered at by the camera.
And in Dead Man’s Blood Dean is used as bait for the vamps and one smacks him to the ground then kisses him.
Those are weird situations to see male leads in and Supernatural doesn't seem to care.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

I'm a women and I don't see the whole 'supernatural is the worst ever to women' thing.
Some people turn watching movies and such into some weird contest of "Who Can Find the Greatest Number of Faults in Anything", which is actually counterproductive, because if there's no pleasing them, then there's no sense in even trying, not to mention they come off as ever-wailing infants rather than seriously concerned folks they apparently pose for...

The gratuitous objectification scene in Phantom Traveler where Dean is laying in bed and is leered at by the camera.
Ah yes, but it's a case of female gaze being implied - through the fourth wall - and not actually being there, because there's no female character watching in the scene. Therefore, it's not really relevant to the picspam's theme. That would be rather a material for another picspam, "Female Gaze Through the Screen". :) Maybe some other day...

As for the ghost in white and the vampiresse, these are examples of cases I just left out - as I wrote, my list wasn't supposed to be really complete; just the biggest ones, especially those being whole scenes or significant parts (also in the script), not just small details that could have been hastily added in the filming. I wondered about the ghost, but it works rather as the whole episode than any given scene.

Perhaps I haven't done myself clear in the entry, but I don't see most of these cases (or female gaze in general, or any gaze) as wrong by default. The show's most basic feature and foundation is being emotional porn, so to speak, therefore the basic reason of character's existence in SPN - any character, no exceptions - is dying and/or suffering and/or being assaulted, also sexually, and also being an eye candy by the way, because it's TV. Therefore I have no problem with this all just being there; I judge only the context of any given case and what interpretation the show seems to offer me. So, I'm okay with stripping fanservice (though I'd rather it was better justified by the plot) in anyone's case - Dean, Sam, Bela or else - because it's not these characters' only or even biggest purpose, and all of them have also well developed personalities and huge influence on the plot. I'm also okay with Abaddon being violently stabbed to death, because this is what you get for being a villain of season(s) and being also woman shouldn't make you a holy cow; also, the context was "look, how the Mark makes Dean lose control over himself and turns him into a monster". I'm even more or less okay with Gertrude's scenes or Heddy & Beverly's, because the show doesn't try to make me take their side; they are shown as icky and ridiculous, and the viewer's sympathy is directed toward the assaulted part. On the other hand, I'm NOT okay with our dear Grabby Pamela, because apparently the show tries to sell me her as 'strong woman' and shows her behavior as acceptable and cool. Sorry, show, but no. There are other female characters (Ellen, Jody, Bela, to name only some) that are truly strong - and not prudes either - without shoving their not-prudeness down anyone's throat, viewer's throat including. Keep up the good job with such like these, show, and ditch all Pamelas (which, thankfully, aren't that numerous in the first place; we get more Ellens and Belas, and that's also why I'm okay with the show in general).

[191181.livejournal.com]

Female fans were what I was thinking with Phantom Traveler, it stands out because I can't think of many purely gratuitous scenes like that. It's not that kind of show like you said and I agree. If I thought SPN was doing something wrong or truly offensive I would have stopped watching years ago.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

it stands out because I can't think of many purely gratuitous scenes like that
In SPN, you mean? Oh, I can... Towel!Sam in "Hell House", workout!Sam in "The Third Man"... It's not that I find it repulsive, or something, but it's the cheap and 'easy' sort of fanservice.

If I thought SPN was doing something wrong or truly offensive I would have stopped watching years ago.
Exactly! Same here. If I don't like something, why to keep watching it.

Thanks again for the link! Maybe I'd argue with the author about a tiny detail or two, but it had plenty of observations making me nod vigorously and was overall very apt.

[191181.livejournal.com]

Towel!Sam in "Hell House", workout!Sam in "The Third Man"

Yeah, it doesn't happen often but it's impossible to miss when it does with the gifs that pop up all over the internet. But those scenes don't bother the way totally pointless fan service does when information is mixed with the eye candy.
We see Dean in bed revealing the knife under his pillow at a time when we're still learning who these guys are.
That Workout!Sam doesn't sleep and pays for sex raises red flags. Just being shirtless is like a red flag for these guys.
I got nothing for Hell House. Sam needs to be distracted for Dean's prank. I suppose they could have had him in the bathroom for something else but no one on TV poops. They do use the shower tho and walk around in a towel after cause that's what people do.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it doesn't happen often but it's impossible to miss when it does with the gifs that pop up all over the internet.
Which reminds me... (http://mariibota.tumblr.com/post/82927411813/ok-i-get-it-dashboard-dean-is-taking-a-shower) :)

[191181.livejournal.com]

Lol Robbie Thompson. He's become Mr. Fan service.

Dean had an after shower scene in bugs but only stuck his head out the door, we don't see much but the woman in the scene just before was shown in the shower. Not fair show.
That gif has me thinking of how many times the writers have Dean wash his face. Does anyone else ever wash or is Dean the only one? Clean for fan service only!

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Dean had an after shower scene in bugs but only stuck his head out the door, we don't see much but the woman in the scene just before was shown in the shower. Not fair show.
Dean had quite a handful shower scenes in the whole canon, I think, but mostly he just sticks his head out, like in "Bugs". However, he wasn't doing anything important for the plot in there, while she was - she died in the shower. Yeah, all these spiders could be suggested instead shown - just one crawling from under the door, and shadows of others on the glass, and her screaming - but it would look rather unnatural, visibly forced, and maybe not as scary as putting the camera closer to her point of view. Even the choice of place adds to it - there's not many places where one feels safer and more relaxed, so when you put a swarm of spiders in there... whoa. Especially that spider is the last critter we usually expect around water. As an arachnophobe I say good job, ugh... Sure, maybe there are some who ogle her (not that there's so much to ogle anyway, with the way it was filmed) or take offence about the fact there's a woman shown in the shower, but personally I just feel with her... Maybe a little more than I'd like to, so this even more proves good job. *shudders*

That gif has me thinking of how many times the writers have Dean wash his face. Does anyone else ever wash or is Dean the only one? Clean for fan service only!
Well, fan service and nothing more as long as one is keeping an eye open just for wet!Dean. When take his overall loath of himself into consideration, it becomes also quite significant in symbolic way - washing as obsessive tries to get clean. I'm pretty sure I came across a gifset pointing something in this line not so long ago, can't remember where...

[191181.livejournal.com]

However, he wasn't doing anything important for the plot in there, while she was - she died in the shower.
And that's why I rarely have a problem with anything they do on the show. That scene worked for the story. I was thinking if Dean's in the shower anyway they could have shown more. In Bugs and Meta Fiction the shower scenes look PG and only fanservicy when taken out of context. Thinking about these scenes is starting to make the show look very PG to me lol never thought of it like that before.

When I think of fanservice in supernatural it's in jokes and fan shout out type stuff not cheap skin scenes. The clean for fan service crack was because of the writers having Dean wash so much. It's obviously for a reason like you said, they wouldn't wast time showing it otherwise but why only him? Has it become a part of his character or like a running joke. Stuff happens ...then Dean washes his face lol. I wonder if the wiki has anything on washing/shower scenes.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

We need an episode with a haunted plumbing! :D

Thinking about these scenes is starting to make the show look very PG to me
Showers aside, it keeps striking me that sex scenes in SPN - those few that aren't made in 90% of showing-nothing fast-flashing close ups - consist of undressing down to underwear and no further, to the point of verging on oddity (Anna/Dean in "Heaven and Hell"), while at the same time all horror and gore - corpses, severed limbs, gouged out eyes and so on - are shown in details and full frontal, so to speak. From the European point of view (don't know where are you from, sorry ^^' ), such combination is perceived as very American. I wonder how many fans (and crewmembers, too) is even aware of this. I'm sure all of them would say, "Sure it is American, it has roads, guns, rock and Impala, and all!", but the way of filming and the interpretation of rating? Not so obvious, and maybe even transparent for many, I guess. :)

When I think of fanservice in supernatural it's in jokes and fan shout out type stuff not cheap skin scenes.
Agreed! The former definitely predominates!

Stuff happens ...then Dean washes his face lol.
Or the other way around - Dean washes and then stuff happens, mostly in the bathroom mirror. Hehe, indeed. *g* Coming to think of it, it almost seems like a case similar to Dean's general facestuffing. Poor Jensen only ate some decorations in that funeral banquet scene in season 1, as he explained on cons, and now every writer throws in some Dean eating moments...

I wonder if the wiki has anything on washing/shower scenes.
It has Shirtless Scenes, but not washing, I think... Looks like it's a waiting field of studies. :)

[191181.livejournal.com]

such combination is perceived as very American.

I lol'd at Crowley's sex scene, that was weird. But sex without full nudity is pretty common on American TV. Networks have different standards and most won't allow it. On FX Sons of Anarchy had scenes like this: http://pandapunk825.tumblr.com/post/77213255010
They had everything but full frontal nudity and the F word (apparently it's worst than graphic torture) in that show. But most networks are more conservative.

A fan asked about the gore at the Paley Festival https://youtu.be/--skDRg7Uds?t=2m21s and sex scenes around 7:47.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

A fan asked about the gore at the Paley Festival https://youtu.be/--skDRg7Uds?t=2m21s and sex scenes around 7:47.
Funny that they say they weren't allowed to show Dean being shot, because it was apparently too much. You'd never guess, seeing what they are allowed to show all the time. *g*

A lovely sequence there: Kripke making, ahem, promises about, presumably, Dean --> Jensen being not exactly happy --> Jared being about this VERY happy --> and choking as the result of it --> with Jensen trying to help him. Serves you right, Jared. They couldn't make it better even as a directed scene... *g*

[191181.livejournal.com]

I like how both Kripke and Jensen are okay with shooting one of the leads and thought it looked cool and the network said no. lol Maybe because he's a hero in the show. IDK but behind the scenes info is always interesting.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Same here, I love getting insight in any sort of creative work, even fandom artists'.

[annie46.livejournal.com]

I'm with Amelia - the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning and before I go to sleep at night!! Yum

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Evening prayer, fandom way. *g*

[masja-17.livejournal.com]

Found this rec'd on twitter.

Awesome post! Enjoyed all the pics and the comments. Thank you!

<3

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

OMG, do you happen to have that tweet at hand??? *bounces as insane bunny* I have no Twitter account, but I'll hang it stuffed over my bed, or something.

Glad you liked it! :)

[masja-17.livejournal.com]

I do have, as of now, a print screen of it. Haven't figured out how to post pics in comments though.

If you PM me your mail address I'll be happy to send it too you.

But I think you'll be able to find it if you google fangasm and twitter, @fangasm posted it sometime yesterday (6th of June)

<3

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Got it (https://twitter.com/FangasmSPN/status/607017545481252864)! Thank you so much for letting me know! :D

(As for putting pics in comments, the usual tag < img src=""/ > works fine, just remove spaces before img and after / and the space in the middle stays.)
ETA
(Though just a link in the comment often is more convenient, in case of big pictures.)

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the long thought out reply!

For me, the knowledge that Kripke, or Dean etc would think this way of me / would treat me this way - is definitely bothersome, regarless even of my identification. I can be a citizen of the world all I like, but the world is going to kick my ass for expressing my gender pretty much all it likes, and that is something to take into account, for me - or not.


If it works for you - that is the awesome part.


I really REALLY disagree with the view that swapping the characters' genders gives us perspective - but I get your point.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Well, it really works for many women - one doesn't need to search far away; look at half of the comments here - and I definitely don't think less of them for this. I share some of this sentiment myself. I agree with Fangasm's authors that fandom is women's way of using and manifesting their own gaze - and I don't judge it as good or bad by default; it's just there, and what is good, is the fact it's been noticed at last. For me, it's not 'women are like this!' or 'women aren't like this!', because in fact they are, and aren't, too. Women are different and in the end of day that's all we should really remember, IMHO. And sometimes I get and impression the show as the whole remembers it more than many critics, even female critics...

[metanewsmods.livejournal.com]

Hello! May we link this on the metanews newsletter? We post on LJ/DW and Tumblr.

[aletheiafelinea.livejournal.com]

Sure! No need to ask, but thank you for asking. And I feel honored, looks like you do great job. I didn't know about the Meta News before, I'll be dropping in there once in a while, I love metas in general.