![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
aletheiafelineaCaveat: It's partially a by-product of a discussion with ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rinkafushi, that's why it may read like a middle part of something.
So I finally watched it, thanks, Rinka! (No, seriously). I wouldn't exactly say I enjoyed most of it, but I'm glad I have the context now. I didn't even fast-forward itmuch. Okay, just most of the Karli scenes; I have very low patience for righteous teens. Surprisingly, I actually liked most of the first episode, which made the rest... uh, an unsurprising disappointment? I guess it's a thing for me, now.
I first and foremost watch for Bucky, everything that has Bucky in it, but here it was actually Sam I liked best, as it turned out. Even if he's apparently an idiot who doesn't switch his phone off... Still, he has great action scenes (everyone is so fixated on the other shield, meanwhile I'm always !!! :))) !!! at Sam shielding with wings, here especially in the first episode; and in the last one, when he brakes with wingtips <3) and has personality and is just simply a good (as in: emphatetic, compassionate and caring) guy you can root for without much of "I want to like you, why do you make it so difficult"; he doesn't.
Putting aside American neuroses about blackpeoplewhitepeople blah blah, there's another not-really-discussed (and outside USA actually more important and interesting) angle making his "Like it's someone else's" feeling understandable (<-- that's me doing a corkscrew backflip to avoid "valid", because I have Tumblr neuroses). From Sam's point of view, same as of majority people in-universe, Captain America = Steve Rogers. At this point in their lives and history, there isn't really a Cap mantle to speak of, because people in-universe (unlike Marvel fandom) never knew any other CA. It's Steve's decision that made it a passable thing, or rather, opened a possibility for it to become. Unlike, say, Black Panther being already a long established mantle-thing in-universe (and now we totally can headcanon MCU!Steve getting the idea when he saw how it works in Wakanda). Funny enough, this also helps to see why Bucky is the one getting over it so much faster than anyone but Steve (or even before Steve, why not :P) - because he's the one who always kept Steve and CA apart, so he's this crucial step ahead of everyone. Therefore, his starting point on the matter isn't "can CA be handed over?", like of course it can, it's a thing not person, he witnessed it being made up together with the shield. No, for him it's "WHO can CA be handed over to".
And Bucky's a born sidekick. Thing is, he's very good at picking the right side to kick for, as long as it's his actual choice. It's pretty meaningful how first he says he'd rather take the shield from Walker than let him have it, but later when he's the only left upright enough to actually pick it up, it's only to drop it next to Sam. Very pointedly. Later yet, when he's watching Sam giving his mind to the world at large, it's meaningful, too - so maybe Bucky's just a sidekick, but his approval is a part of making a CA, second only to a new CA's decision and (on this side of the fourth wall) weighing way more than the world's opinion. This was what TFATWS did good, about Bucky. Also, that it fleshes him out not only as competent and insightful, but - more than so far in canon - smart and cultured. Also composed, contrary to his in-universe reputation and his own fears. Not to be mistaken with non-violent, but violence noticeably isn't his go-to solution; usually he takes his time to watch and assess. And most times when he does go for violence, it's deliberate and measured; it does not wield him. (Unlike the government's poster boy Walker. Or even a certain Wakandan. Not to mention those freedom brawlers bunch.) Still, beyond that, TFATWS does him dirty.
That's where this unsurprising disappointment is. I do agree about him being more believable and alive here than the doormat with a saint icon painted on it he is in Infinity-Endgame, but it feels... like it's a sensible form with nonsense content, somehow? It's hard to grasp, actually. Besides, it's weird how their, Sam & Bucky, attitudes toward each other are partially flipped, comparing to the movies: here Bucky is the saltier and grumpier one, while Sam lost the scowl and is basically back to his chirpy-warm beginning-of-TWS self.
Other gripes pointed endlessly in the fandom confirmed, too:
# Bucky's heavily nerfed; no way Sam and Bucky TOGETHER have so much trouble with Walker, freshly souped up or not, and don't even start me at the truck fight. Generally, half of the people in the show have plot armors, and the other half have plot-made holes in their armors.
# That cringefest of "therapy", cut me a break. Most time I suspected she was put on the job because the brass secretly hoped Winter Soldier's gonna lose it and tear her to 2784 tiny pieces, which'd be win-win for everyone beyond the room - Bucky locked back and they get rid of her. I liked how he keeps his own pretty tight in the first scene, but the finishing one? Cute thank you for her, fuckin' seriously? And it was Steve's notebook, she has no right to get her stinky paws on it.
# Ayo. I get she's pissed, though she should be pissed at the script rather than Bucky, but even if it was okay to built in a safety switch without warning him (it wasn't; noticed and appreciated Sam asking) and even if it was okay for her to use it (it wasn't; she was not in danger, just not winning), she still sucks at being Dora Milaje, especially one in charge: she has Jupiter sized anger issues and she loses Zemo because giving Walker a lesson is more important for her pride. Apparently Dora Milaje's jurisdiction doesn't reach one Dora Milaje's brain. Besides, Bucky did NOT attack her; he only reluctantly stepped in at Sam's request and telegraphing his de-escalating intention. Made a scene in which Winter Soldier acted in a more peace-making manner than the famed royal guard, what an achievement, put it in your CV, Ayo.
# Was it really so hard to have anyone else but Bucky admitting his life wasn't a picnic?
Which leads us to...
Isaiah. Man, nothing personal, but you shouldn't be there at all. The script, in fact, did him dirty too. He doesn't even get to have an original story - growing up in a poor neighborhood, serumed without signing for it, rescuing a campful of brothers-in-arms, locked out of sight as a guinea pig... Is there a single fresh ingredient of his own in this stew? Besides being one guy stitched of two, much wow, how efficient. Job reductions everywhere, these days... And after this, the writers had the nerve to put in his mouth "they erased me". In universe, yeah. Outside of it, it's someone else getting erased by replacing here. As if the game of constant re-re-re-remaking the serum idea and multiplying supersoldiers like bunnies (new! better! hoppier! fluffier!) wasn't trite enough, they had to make it dishonest on top of trite. Sincerely, shove it up yours, writers.
That leads to two other things. TFATWS, as befits a Hollywood showTM, has The Message.
It very much has The Message.
It very strongly has The Message being very strong.
Beyond any doubt it strongly states how strong The Message is.
It doesn't really know what Message it exactly is, but by God, it is there. Strongly.
In fact, The Message is so strong it's not about what it is anymore.
Strongly having The Message is The Message itself.
The Message is The Message. Very strong.
Basically, watching this is like listening to Karli in-universe must be, going on and on how blowing shit up is The Message, while your eyebrows are trying to crawl away without drawing attention...
And the other thing is the script on literary level. Most of quality on screen is from the actors instead of what they got to work with. Mentioned before Bucky being the right form holding wrong content is just one result of this. Other is Daniel showing how Zemo is scared shitless of Bucky, just putting up a good facade, without a spoken word on it in script actual. But then there are words that are there... Sam's speech is way too long; it should end at "you're actually right it's complicated and now you know how it feels to be helpless", that would hit stronger (:P); as it is, it's verging on comedic, like there's gonna be a hook from beyond the frame snatching him away by his neck, any moment now. Speaking of which, parts like wizards or Marvin Gaye feel like shoved in wrong shaped holes or like jelly bricks in a stone wall. I get why they're cherished in the fandom, but they make much better gifs than they work in the context. It's also either under-betaed or over-commiteed, possibly both. Maybe Sam wouldn't tell Bucky to stop looking to other people for directions and three seconds later telling him what should he do, otherwise. Maybe there wouldn't be vaguely puzzling lines, too, like overlooked parts of something that got cut out. And "I didn't have a choice" line, while true and needed, when put like this, falls like the cheapest excuse in the shop with cheap excuses on a discount day. It shouldn't be on Bucky to say this, not when it's framed as a statement instead of acknowledgement.
And, smallest maybe, but still annoying, details that feel like overlooked errors: why is Bucky included in Avengers with Sam, when spoken about? and what's the deal with complaining about Bucky staring, when of all times it's brought up, he gives any reason to it like one time in four?
Some more neutral notions:
I'm really happy that they wrapped those poor trees, but it defeats the whole point of exercise, somewhat. In the field it's going to bounce off concrete, metal and bodies, rarely cushions... Btw, I like the cooperation of sound and effects technicians here; they made the shield have a perceptible weight and momentum, nice job.
So, looks like Sharon becomes Sam's Zemo, eventually, only no one really knows about it and there's no Wakandans around to take care of her.
Marvel's political geography seems almost as crazy as the real one. Of what I gathered so far, Sokovia was a Baltic-Balkanian country with SlavicTM people and Socrealistic art. It was wedged next to Soviet Russia but had a legal aristocracy and no concept of retirement. It was also city-sized and had forests with lynxes. Or maybe not anymore and Zemo's coat was their last one.
rinkafushi, that's why it may read like a middle part of something.So I finally watched it, thanks, Rinka! (No, seriously). I wouldn't exactly say I enjoyed most of it, but I'm glad I have the context now. I didn't even fast-forward it
I first and foremost watch for Bucky, everything that has Bucky in it, but here it was actually Sam I liked best, as it turned out. Even if he's apparently an idiot who doesn't switch his phone off... Still, he has great action scenes (everyone is so fixated on the other shield, meanwhile I'm always !!! :))) !!! at Sam shielding with wings, here especially in the first episode; and in the last one, when he brakes with wingtips <3) and has personality and is just simply a good (as in: emphatetic, compassionate and caring) guy you can root for without much of "I want to like you, why do you make it so difficult"; he doesn't.
Putting aside American neuroses about blackpeoplewhitepeople blah blah, there's another not-really-discussed (and outside USA actually more important and interesting) angle making his "Like it's someone else's" feeling understandable (<-- that's me doing a corkscrew backflip to avoid "valid", because I have Tumblr neuroses). From Sam's point of view, same as of majority people in-universe, Captain America = Steve Rogers. At this point in their lives and history, there isn't really a Cap mantle to speak of, because people in-universe (unlike Marvel fandom) never knew any other CA. It's Steve's decision that made it a passable thing, or rather, opened a possibility for it to become. Unlike, say, Black Panther being already a long established mantle-thing in-universe (and now we totally can headcanon MCU!Steve getting the idea when he saw how it works in Wakanda). Funny enough, this also helps to see why Bucky is the one getting over it so much faster than anyone but Steve (or even before Steve, why not :P) - because he's the one who always kept Steve and CA apart, so he's this crucial step ahead of everyone. Therefore, his starting point on the matter isn't "can CA be handed over?", like of course it can, it's a thing not person, he witnessed it being made up together with the shield. No, for him it's "WHO can CA be handed over to".
And Bucky's a born sidekick. Thing is, he's very good at picking the right side to kick for, as long as it's his actual choice. It's pretty meaningful how first he says he'd rather take the shield from Walker than let him have it, but later when he's the only left upright enough to actually pick it up, it's only to drop it next to Sam. Very pointedly. Later yet, when he's watching Sam giving his mind to the world at large, it's meaningful, too - so maybe Bucky's just a sidekick, but his approval is a part of making a CA, second only to a new CA's decision and (on this side of the fourth wall) weighing way more than the world's opinion. This was what TFATWS did good, about Bucky. Also, that it fleshes him out not only as competent and insightful, but - more than so far in canon - smart and cultured. Also composed, contrary to his in-universe reputation and his own fears. Not to be mistaken with non-violent, but violence noticeably isn't his go-to solution; usually he takes his time to watch and assess. And most times when he does go for violence, it's deliberate and measured; it does not wield him. (Unlike the government's poster boy Walker. Or even a certain Wakandan. Not to mention those freedom brawlers bunch.) Still, beyond that, TFATWS does him dirty.
That's where this unsurprising disappointment is. I do agree about him being more believable and alive here than the doormat with a saint icon painted on it he is in Infinity-Endgame, but it feels... like it's a sensible form with nonsense content, somehow? It's hard to grasp, actually. Besides, it's weird how their, Sam & Bucky, attitudes toward each other are partially flipped, comparing to the movies: here Bucky is the saltier and grumpier one, while Sam lost the scowl and is basically back to his chirpy-warm beginning-of-TWS self.
Other gripes pointed endlessly in the fandom confirmed, too:
# Bucky's heavily nerfed; no way Sam and Bucky TOGETHER have so much trouble with Walker, freshly souped up or not, and don't even start me at the truck fight. Generally, half of the people in the show have plot armors, and the other half have plot-made holes in their armors.
# That cringefest of "therapy", cut me a break. Most time I suspected she was put on the job because the brass secretly hoped Winter Soldier's gonna lose it and tear her to 2784 tiny pieces, which'd be win-win for everyone beyond the room - Bucky locked back and they get rid of her. I liked how he keeps his own pretty tight in the first scene, but the finishing one? Cute thank you for her, fuckin' seriously? And it was Steve's notebook, she has no right to get her stinky paws on it.
# Ayo. I get she's pissed, though she should be pissed at the script rather than Bucky, but even if it was okay to built in a safety switch without warning him (it wasn't; noticed and appreciated Sam asking) and even if it was okay for her to use it (it wasn't; she was not in danger, just not winning), she still sucks at being Dora Milaje, especially one in charge: she has Jupiter sized anger issues and she loses Zemo because giving Walker a lesson is more important for her pride. Apparently Dora Milaje's jurisdiction doesn't reach one Dora Milaje's brain. Besides, Bucky did NOT attack her; he only reluctantly stepped in at Sam's request and telegraphing his de-escalating intention. Made a scene in which Winter Soldier acted in a more peace-making manner than the famed royal guard, what an achievement, put it in your CV, Ayo.
# Was it really so hard to have anyone else but Bucky admitting his life wasn't a picnic?
Which leads us to...
Isaiah. Man, nothing personal, but you shouldn't be there at all. The script, in fact, did him dirty too. He doesn't even get to have an original story - growing up in a poor neighborhood, serumed without signing for it, rescuing a campful of brothers-in-arms, locked out of sight as a guinea pig... Is there a single fresh ingredient of his own in this stew? Besides being one guy stitched of two, much wow, how efficient. Job reductions everywhere, these days... And after this, the writers had the nerve to put in his mouth "they erased me". In universe, yeah. Outside of it, it's someone else getting erased by replacing here. As if the game of constant re-re-re-remaking the serum idea and multiplying supersoldiers like bunnies (new! better! hoppier! fluffier!) wasn't trite enough, they had to make it dishonest on top of trite. Sincerely, shove it up yours, writers.
That leads to two other things. TFATWS, as befits a Hollywood showTM, has The Message.
It very much has The Message.
It very strongly has The Message being very strong.
Beyond any doubt it strongly states how strong The Message is.
It doesn't really know what Message it exactly is, but by God, it is there. Strongly.
In fact, The Message is so strong it's not about what it is anymore.
Strongly having The Message is The Message itself.
The Message is The Message. Very strong.
Basically, watching this is like listening to Karli in-universe must be, going on and on how blowing shit up is The Message, while your eyebrows are trying to crawl away without drawing attention...
And the other thing is the script on literary level. Most of quality on screen is from the actors instead of what they got to work with. Mentioned before Bucky being the right form holding wrong content is just one result of this. Other is Daniel showing how Zemo is scared shitless of Bucky, just putting up a good facade, without a spoken word on it in script actual. But then there are words that are there... Sam's speech is way too long; it should end at "you're actually right it's complicated and now you know how it feels to be helpless", that would hit stronger (:P); as it is, it's verging on comedic, like there's gonna be a hook from beyond the frame snatching him away by his neck, any moment now. Speaking of which, parts like wizards or Marvin Gaye feel like shoved in wrong shaped holes or like jelly bricks in a stone wall. I get why they're cherished in the fandom, but they make much better gifs than they work in the context. It's also either under-betaed or over-commiteed, possibly both. Maybe Sam wouldn't tell Bucky to stop looking to other people for directions and three seconds later telling him what should he do, otherwise. Maybe there wouldn't be vaguely puzzling lines, too, like overlooked parts of something that got cut out. And "I didn't have a choice" line, while true and needed, when put like this, falls like the cheapest excuse in the shop with cheap excuses on a discount day. It shouldn't be on Bucky to say this, not when it's framed as a statement instead of acknowledgement.
And, smallest maybe, but still annoying, details that feel like overlooked errors: why is Bucky included in Avengers with Sam, when spoken about? and what's the deal with complaining about Bucky staring, when of all times it's brought up, he gives any reason to it like one time in four?
Some more neutral notions:
I'm really happy that they wrapped those poor trees, but it defeats the whole point of exercise, somewhat. In the field it's going to bounce off concrete, metal and bodies, rarely cushions... Btw, I like the cooperation of sound and effects technicians here; they made the shield have a perceptible weight and momentum, nice job.
So, looks like Sharon becomes Sam's Zemo, eventually, only no one really knows about it and there's no Wakandans around to take care of her.
Marvel's political geography seems almost as crazy as the real one. Of what I gathered so far, Sokovia was a Baltic-Balkanian country with SlavicTM people and Socrealistic art. It was wedged next to Soviet Russia but had a legal aristocracy and no concept of retirement. It was also city-sized and had forests with lynxes. Or maybe not anymore and Zemo's coat was their last one.
no subject
Date: 2025-06-01 22:44 (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-06-02 17:34 (UTC)(you're sooooooooo welcome to jump in, anytime!)
no subject
Date: 2025-06-02 02:40 (UTC)Reportedly, the original script for TFATWS had a significant plot point about a pandemic (written before covid). Once covid started, they re-edited/rewrote/reshot the whole thing to tear that plot out, which made the whole thing collapse.
I get the sense from what you've written that you're kind of dismissing the race relations aspect as American nonsense, but it feels like that's causing you to miss important context in the Isaiah story. Him having such a similar backstory to Steve but being treated so much worse mirrors the many real life instances in which black people in America have been experimented upon and mistreated, such as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study which inspired the Isaiah Bradley character in the comics.
no subject
Date: 2025-06-02 17:35 (UTC)Same here! I expected it before watching and, well, confirmed. I was bummed it's so short. :D Or maybe it was good so it went too fast, compared to awful pieces like the therapy. XD
Indeed, whatever was missing there, it did feel like they changed the course somewhere midway, and the result derailed and crashed...
you're kind of dismissing the race relations aspect as American nonsense
No, I'm doing it deliberately. I see what they try to do there, I'm just done with pretending it's a quality mark in a movie/show/whatever. American media do anti-racism in the way that turns it into pro-racism. Because this, effectively, is introducing a character whose apparently only importance is drawn from his color, and beyond that nobody cares enough to give him anything but second-hand parts.
I could explain more. Maybe I should. Younger me might try. But as I say, I'm done. American media push shit I fundamentally disagree with and engaging in this is endorsing it, in a way. So I dismiss. I have elected to ignore their stupid-ass gimmick message.
no subject
Date: 2025-06-02 17:48 (UTC)